Grenfell, COVID-19 and our inability to learn: Risk Guru Podcast with Matt Hodges- Long & Gill Kernick

At a time when I was feeling very cynical about change after Grenfell, Matt reached out to me about work he was doing to track fire safety risks in high-rise buildings. Not only am I hugely supportive of the level of transparency and certainty that the Building Safety Register provides, it was symbolically significant for me to meet someone from industry with such a passion to enable change. In short, he gave me hope.

Matt recently invited me for a chat on his podcast – Risk Guru. Join us for a meandering chat as we share our thoughts (and tears) about learning, Grenfell and COVID-19.

I’ve included details about a couple of things I mention in the podcast.

Matt, thanks for the invitation… and for giving me hope.

The podcast (30 minutes)


Marcio Gomez’s evidence of escaping from the 21st floor with his family

The following BBC Grenfell Inquiry Podcast shares Marcio Gomez’s testimony about his escape from the tower. Marcio was my neighbour on the 21st floor when we lived in Grenfell. His son, Logan Isaac, the youngest victim of the fire, was still born at seven months.

I attended the Inquiry the day Marcio gave evidence, and it remains one of the most difficult things I’ve ever heard. This should be compulsory listening for everyone working in housing or construction. When faced with decisions about investing in safety this should be in the forefront of people’s thinking.


Policy lessons from catastrophic events: Bennett Institute Report

I mention the event on Policy lessons from catastrophic event which Matt attended at the end of February. We’ve just released a report based on the conversations. Below is a link to a short blog summarising key outputs.

And the full report can be downloaded here.

Take care out there. Thanks for your time.


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